REVisions 2.04, October 11th, 1998

From: David Hathaway  
Subject: REVisions 2.04 

And welcome to the season usually referred to as "fall"...

Yes, guilt has finally gotten the better of me and a new REVisions is right
in front of you. No excuses this time, past, its been busy, so, enough of
my babbling and let's get on with it. And I'll make a real effort to get
this back into at least monthly if not every two weeks provided some
further submissions, articles, stories, etc come through...

Don't forget that all past and previous mailings get archived the same day
on the REVisions web site, located at :

    http://www.monkey-boy.com/REVisions/

If you need to get off the list, or, your email address changes, please let
me know at dh@monkey-boy.com , or, if you know of someone else who would
like to get the mailings, have them send me a note to the same address. 

And, of course, if you'd like to submit questions, stories, ideas or
otherwise, send them on to me, dh@monkey-boy.com and I'll include them in
the next mail out.

8-)

On with it...

-------------------------------------

From: "David Ritchie"  
To:  
Subject: REVisions -added to Subscribe 
Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 00:13:00 -0400 

I have had my Rev II since 1995 or so. I was in Monterey California and met
the infamous Corey "kite" Jansen of Windborne Kites. He sold me a plain
jane type kite since it was the first kite I had flown since being a kid
(about 122 yrs ago). That was a fun kite I thought and people stopped to
look at it hovering in the breeze. By the end of the summer my 2 year old
son was attaching himself to the spool and having a really good time of it.
It was at that point I said to myself " if he can fly this thing it is time
for a new challenge". *I phoned Corey up in Ca. and said to him "just send
the wildest thing in the store and choose the most outrageous colour you
have". A few short days later (and some big bucks) a package arrived with a
Rev II in neon pink. WOW, did this ever look great. It took me about 1 year
to learn to fly since nobody else around had one to help me. Now I find
this a joy to fly and am looking to add to my collection. I am also looking
for a good Kite shop near Toronto where I can get parts and stuff. If
anybody knows of one please let me know at plantpro@sprint.ca.
Thanks.

(ed. note - I will be in Toronto from Oct 16th to Oct 25th. I am looking to
get some flying in at LEAST on the 24 or 25th, or during that week
preceeding that weekend. If you live in Toronto and want to "spank the
planet" (as Michael Raycraft so eloquently put it in rec.kites) with me, or
know good places to fly or think I am stupid for even thinking about flying
in Toronto in October, mail me at dh@monkey-boy.com before the 16th)

-------------------------------------

(ed. note - penny answers yet another question....)

Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 18:07:03 -0700 (PDT) 
From: Penny Lingen  
Subject: REVisions -Fwd: [Fwd: Questions on the SUL kit for Rev. 1.5 SLE] 

note: forwarded msg attached.

Hi.. Sorry I've been so late in answering you.  This will be short just to
let you know I've read it, and plan on replying.  I've been doing lots of
research on the subject!  :)  Great summer evenings, no wind.  I Keep one
up in the car ready to toss out in a parking lot, park, baseball field,
etc.   It is easier to learn on lines 10-15 ft. long.  It moves slower.
But at the same time heavier to learn on.  6- 8 ft. short lines are easy
and quick.  Two foot increments are totally different.  Try 10-12-15.  8 is
fast.. but great fun.. very 3-d body motions.

ok.. I have to go.. I'll check this out and finish it up later... bridle..
no bridle.. less you like them..  80 lb line is fine.  No less then 50lb..
but expect breakage.. You can call me the drag queen.. lines break in no
wind.. from the amount of drag I produce "inside".  If you only fly smooth
they might be ok.  but hey.. it's a quad! :D  lol  Gotta Go!
Best Breezes,

Penny  rkd2/#kites

Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 07:37:42 -0700
From: Penny & Steven Lingenfelter 
To: pennyrevkite@yahoo.com
Subject: REVisions -[Fwd: Questions on the SUL kit for Rev. 1.5 SLE]

From: "The Gurney Family" 
To: 
Subject: REVisions -Questions on the SUL kit for Rev. 1.5 SLE
Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 07:31:38 -0400

Dear Penny,
I subscribe to REVisions, and have been very impressed with the great
information and knowledge you have imparted to its readers, and found your
advice very helpful. 
I have just received  SUL kit for my Rev. 1.5 SLE and have a few questions.
Can I use the bridle that came with my 1.5 SLE  kite or do I have to order
a new one?   Or do you recommend no bridle.
I will be flying my kite outdoors in low to zero winds. The information
from Revolution has not been very much help.
What weight fly lines should I use?
What length fly lines for what wind conditions should I use?
What is the top wind speed that SUL can fly, before changing the rods.
Thanks for your help, keep up the good work.

Lance Gurney
Portland, Maine
gurney@ime.net

-------------------------------------

(ed. note and her response to my rec.kites post on 3D mods...)

Date: Mon, 03 Aug 1998 07:39:58 -0700 
From: Penny & Steven Lingenfelter  
Newsgroups: rec.kites 
To: dh  
Subject: REVisions -Re: REV 1.5 3-D modifications 

First off I shutter every time David tells me he drilled holes in his cap!  :D

Three-D  flying will usually find you on wooden or cement floors.  The caps
take more abuse then all of the rest of the kite put together.  I know.  I've
replaced two or three sets on my indoor kites.  They get totally worn down, till
there's not enough material and they crack.  It's not a sudden thing, but quick
enough.

I just larks head my indoor lines into my existing cap hole and around it.
There's plenty of room in there, even with a bundgee.

My modifications are simple.   No bridle- knots in the back.  (The strings
in the front..  so I don't really  have to change that.)
I have spoken with people who solve their string entanglements with  their
knots by hot gluing the bundgee ends  together so there are  *no knots. ( Just
wishing I was that organized!)

Taking off the washers is fine for indoors.  But be aware it opens up a safety
hazard outside.  Heavy winds can take the knots through the hole in the kite-
unattaching your line from your kite and sending it down.   That's a word of
experience.    So if you are washerless, be very careful flying around people.

What length of lines are you using?  Keep in mind two foot increments are
where you'll experience changes.  If your catching your lines to much.  You may
prefer to go to a shorter set.

Have fun Jason!  We'll see you in the gym!!

Best Breezes,
Penny  rkd2/#kites

Ps remember slow is good!

-----------------------------------------------

From: barlin@sunshine.net (Barry Taylor/Linda Williams) 
Subject: REVisions -where`s the revs?? 
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 00:29:10 -0700 

Hi all,
Well here`s the goods from the man himself:
"Unfortunately the Rev II is no longer manufactured.  All that is left in the
world are the ones still in any retailer's stock."
This was from an inquiry I sent to Revolution about special ordering a Rev
ll sul. So I set off to Vancouver to see what Sally from Kites and Puppets
had in stock and did come away with another Rev ll to compliment our l, l.5
sul, and ll.
I`ve heard that Revolution has lost the patent on the Rev design. Is this
the case for the cessation of one of my all time favourite kites in it`s
various incarnations? It`s understandable if that`s the case.
Also, and I may be jumping the gun here, has anyone noticed a lack of
dedicated 0 wind kites from Revolution. Sure they offer kits for existing
models as for example "The Rev 1.5 SLE can be retrofitted with an SUL (light
/ no wind kit) ". What about us lazy folks who don`t want to change bridles
etc. on their beloved kites? I would have loved to have gotten a rev l sul
and a rev ll sul to compliment our regular ones.
For my style of indoor flying I find the Deca 6' 0 wind kicks butt over our
rev l.5 sul. I also a/b`d our fine editors rev ll sul and his deca 0 wind
this past weekend and still, for me, the deca kicked butt. ( that sure was a
tricky hall to fly in huh, David, with those hidden guy wires, lights and
real low ceiling). Outside is a different story as  the rev l.5 sul wins
hands down over the deca.
One day maybe I`ll get a rev sle to compliment our 1..5 sul but we`ll see.
I`ve tried David`s Shockwave but it wasn`t fun as the wind was a bit too
strong that day. Even he aggreed it was too crazy. Nice kite though. No need
for a vented for me though as where I live the wind is fairly light .. hence
my love of ultralights. If the wind does get real crazy and a regular rev ll
can`t take it I`ll switch to a flexifoil or my little merlin fighter. 
I`ve also been in contact with Mark from Prism and they`ve been working on a
quad liner so we`ll see what happens.
Take care all,

Barry Taylor
barlin digital sound and graphic design
barlin@sunshine.net
fax: 604 886-3368

-------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 09:18:09 -0400 (EDT) 
From: Michael Raycraft  
Subject: REVisions -- animated quad moves 

For those on the list who may not have checked them out yet, here are the
urls to a couple of sites which do a nice job at showing animated versions
of various quadline kite manoeuvres.  These are great for getting a moving
depiction to supplement the mind's eye for the Bowtie Twist, the Lollipop,
Follow the Flow, etc... 

  Hugh Lawson's site:    http://www.typhoon.co.jp/~hugh/

  Roy Reed's pages:    http://www.saqnet.co.uk/users/reeddesign/

You might have to download a macromedia program to view them.  There are 
also duallie vids for the plebes out there :) 

Keep up the good work, David.

Michael       [|*//   Michael Raycraft    am979@torfree.net
-=-
'Do something for me in the meantime,' I said. 'Keep the Codys flying; 
till something better comes along....'  (Kiteworld,  Keith Roberts)

(ed. note - I was going to comment on these GREAT pages, but, Michael beat
me to it...)

---------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 16:40:28 +0200 
From: Michael Hildebrandt  
Subject: REVisions -the revolution of kites 

Hi David,

visited your homepage. Yery nice site... Found you with KiteRing. I love
quadline-flying too since about 5 years. We fly as a team sometimes (3
fliers with revolution). Visit my homepage and you4ll see.. I will meet
John Mitchell in a few weeks at the next competition in Hamm/Germany.
John and I flew several competitions a few years ago, a few weeks ago we
met in Cuxhaven at the Stack-Competition. I think John is one of the
best in the world in rev-flying. I don't fly competitions any more
(since 1996) The Decorators have been in Germay for several times too.
It's fantastic to look at this team when they fly their hot figures.
Hope we'll mail again for more informations.

With best regards from Germany,
Michael
..sorry for my bad english.....       visit my homepage:
http://beam.to/mod

(ed. note - I'd be the last person to comment on english useage...  8)

----------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 10:33:43 -0700 
To: dh@monkey-boy.com 
From: Phil Kalenowsky  
Subject: REVisions -Silly question.. 

In the Aug98 newsletter.. 

A note from the editor mentioned he 'had' a TC Ultra Quad/Dual 
delta. 

I've seen two of these advertised for sale, the Cobra Lomax being the other. 

I've never seen reviews, and was wondering how these 'duel/quad' kites
perform. 

thanks!  Phil 

(ed. note - Well, I DO have a TC Ultra. But, I bought that before I owned a
Rev, so I can comment that it's a great dual and I intend to take it out as
a quad this weekend to re-try it as a quad now. I'll post more about it
next time. I do like the kite, its beautiful, very well made and it is an
really cool kite to fly on four lines, its just that at that point, I did
not know -anything - about quad flight...there's a pic of mine in the Gallery)

-----------------------------------------

From: "Alex Schaap"  
Subject: REVisions -pic of me and my kite 
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 10:16:35 -0600 

david,

Attached is a picture of myself with my shockwave... on the copacabana, Rio
De Janeiro.  Are there going to be any more rev visions coming out soon?

Alex.

(ed. note - I'll get this pic onto the gallery, it looks like Alex was
having far too much fun in Brazil with that kite...thanks Alex and anyone
else who has Rev/Quad flying pictures, send them in and I'll include them
in the gallery as well...and yes, here's the new REVisions...)

--------------------------------------

(ed. note - a great rec.kites article from Jean Lemire of S.T.A.F.F Canada)

Hi folks.

On a Rev. without bridles you attach your lines to the very ends of each
vertical spar (top line at top of vertical spar and bottom line at bottom of
vertical spar.  Be aware that the handling characteristics will be altered
somewhat.  Also keep in mind that the pressure on the sail will be taken by
only four points instead of seven (there are five attachments points between
the bridle and the upper part of the frame, 2 wing tips on leading edge, 1
center of leading edge and 2 tops of vertical spars, and two on the bottom
tips of vertical spars.  So the leading edge will be subjected to more
intense bending because it will be supported at two points instead of five
(this is where most of the pressure is present.

I have seen that done mostly for indoor flying (or outdoor in very very low
wind).

Wind or no wind, fly for fun.

Jean (Johnny) Lemire of team S.T.A.F.F. from Montreal, Canada.

-------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 22:53:17 -0700 
From: Jedi Jack  
Subject: REVisions -rev kite mailing list 

Hiya!

Came across your website. Please add me to your rev mailing digest. Also
toss this post in the next digest if you wish.

I have a simple BackTraker. I was hooked when I stumbled accidently
onto the Stunt Kite World Cup at Longbeach Wash last year. I didnt know
it was happeneing at the time. We went north from Oregon for a vacation.
When we got to Longbeach we went "Hey cool, a kite festival! Lets check
it out!" We watched the kite ballet competition. Guys with two string
stunters diving and twisting to classical blasted over the beach. That
was ok but was all starting to look the same. Then this nice guy came
out that I met that morning in a coffee shop. This loud head banging
industrial pounds out of the loud speakers and a kite like none I had
ever seen before pops up off the sand from laying flat and does things I
never thought possible. Ups, downs, dead stops, hovers, backwards spins
and everything. I talked to the guy when he was done and he showed me
his Rev. I was definitly hooked. I had to have one. Then I found out
latter that this guy is North American stunt kite champ! Next time Linda
and I were on the coast at the kite store I bought a year end close out
BackTraker the guy sold me at half price cause "I've seen you in here
before. Your a kite guy." I came out took a deep breath and told her I
owed her a trip to the quilt store. After giving me the evil eye she
made good on my debt.

A few trips to the beach later I had the basic
bounce-it-along-in-the-sand-until-it-flops-in-the-water manuever down
pat. I was ready for bigger things. I am now able to get it to hover,
turn sideways, spin (but not rotate, yet!) launch from an inadvertant
upside down position and gently set down. Sometimes not so gently. But I
learn more each time and can't get enough of it. I come back home all my
problems at work reduced to nothing and find I can take time to enjoy
life again. Such it is to know the joy of a kite. Even more so a nice
string snarler like my Rev.

    - Jack Standeven
      Corvallis, Oregon

"Oregon! Land of Mountains, Trees, Ocean Breeze. And California
Retirees!"
---------------------------------------

(ed. note - Penny truly is the best submitter to this list, I whined at her
teh other day about a lack of submissions, and volia, two great posts
showed up mere minutes later, thanks as always Penny, and good luck at the
AKA Nationals on Oct. 15th, I am certainly hoping you take first! )

Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 18:55:17 -0700 
From: Penny & Steven Lingenfelter  
Subject: REVisions -Re: Startup with a REV ShockWave 

Ernie Nichols wrote:
> 
> Hi Penny ...
> 
> > Hi Ernie,
> > Congratulations on the Shockwave!  It is what we consider a big boys
> > toy.  Which means it's not really for beginners.    I'll tell you some
> > of the common mistakes we find with beginners and you can see if you fit
> > into any of these catagories.
> > 1)  Enough wind.  If you don't know how to keep this kite moving then
> > you will need plenty of wind to learn in.  It has a heavier leading
> > edge, two extra spars, and a beginner at the handles.  Don't try to
> > learn to fly it under 5 mph.
> >
> > 2)  Where you point the BOTTOM of those handles is where the kite will
> > go. So, if your left bottom handle is pointing left.  It will go to the
> > left.  If the right bottom handle is pointing right, it will go to the
> > right.  If both bottom handles are pointed out.... it will confuse the
> > heck out of it!  So launch by pulling back the handles and pointing the
> > bottoms "Up and In".

Hi again Ernie,
Lets see if I can explain this clearer. 
You are holding the handles in a neutral position.  Almost straight up &
down. (You can do this sitting at the computer)  Look at your handles
and see if the bottoms are pointing slightly out.. Left & right... This
is the case w/many people.  They turn thier *hands in so both handles
are forward.  During or after the launch their hands go back to the
forward position and it puts one or both handle bottoms pointing
slightly out.

I doubt you will see this on the video.  Take the handle in your hand
and physically move *it so the handles are actually facing forward. 
Yes, like a screw driver!  

Before you launch try to check your handles for evenness, lines
taught,.. Now pull back as you launch "up & in"  I say that as a way to
inform people it's important to not launch w/the handles out, at least
not untill you know how to correct or compensate for it. To often people
have one handle straight and one turned to one side.

  You know how your wind window will have no wind off the ground for
1-10 ft. sometimes. It's also easier if you use a kite launch.  One foot
behind you.. as you launch step back one to how ever many steps is
necessary. It will give you the extra lift you need.
> This is confusing to me ... do you mean twist the handle (as in twisting
> a screwdriver) so that the lower part is pointing as you say ... left
> or right?  Is this a micro adjustment? 

Ernie.. this adjustment can be up to a 1/4 of a turn.  People pick up
their handles wrong and turn their wrists in.. you don't want to fly w/
your wrist turned in.  It's worth checking.  I've physically turned
handles in peoples hands many many times.  

>I've never seen any mention of
> this particular move in any of the references I've seen on the web or in
> the  Revolution video.  Its not clear to me how this is different from just
> tipping the handle ... although I must admit this makes some sense
> considering  the handle design ... I never did understand why they didn't
>just use a straight handle.

Another trick you might try is lowering your hands on your handles.  For
me the handles are like a dart.  I look for a balance point in the
middle of them that gives me even controll of bottom and top lines.  Try
it with your thumbs lowered to right below the beginning of the black
sponge and see if that makes any difference for you.  Remember there is
no right and wrong way to fly a Rev.  whatever works for you!  

Nope, need the bend.... don't straighten it!  :D  

> > The reason I say pulling back is because a common mistake that people
> > make is going forward, up & in.  They think by leaning the kite back it
> > will catch more air and lift.  This is true IF lines are still tight and
> > even and IF they pull back on the launch. However, you have created lag
> > in their bottom line and the wind has taken it off before you launch
> > it.  Usually to the same side of the wind window over & over again.
> > Keep your lines tight.  Then YOU will control it and not the wind.
> >
> > Another common mistake is flyers who launch the kite "up & in"  and
> > then  hold the handls up high~even over their heads.... but they've
> > pointed the bottom handles down without realizing it.  And the kite goes
> > where the bottom handles tell it to.  Dooooowwwwn it comes.  (there are
> > a few exceptions to this rule  of thumb)
> >
> > I'm sorry, I don't know what REV is handing out in the way of line. What
> > handles are you using?
> The handles that came with the Shockwave ... a 3/8" aluminum tube about
> a foot long bent roughtly in the middle at roughly 135 deg and covered
with a
> foam grip. Wire bails at either end and 4" of dacron with a knot at the
> end attached to the bails.
>It was the line I was unsure of.  Hopefully Laser Pro.. and I would

think they would be 4 even lengths.  That was what I was curious about.

> It's probably not the line, and it's probably
> > not the bridle.  It's going to be a heavier kite in light wind, and a
> > faster kite in high wind.  Yes, it is flyable and it is controllable.
> > Don't try to learn in light wind.  You will only become frustrated.
> > If you know anyone who fly's Rev's it might be a good idea to let them
try it, maybe even give you some pointers. Good luck!
> > Best Breezes,
> > Penny
> Thanks for responding ... I'm determined to figure this out as I can
> just  get a hint of the fun after this hurdle!> 

Ernie! You can't imagine all the fun you can have w/this kite!!  Keep at
it!!! You'll be glad you did!!
Have you read REVisions?  There might be somthing in there that helps.  
BB Penny
PS.. I'll forward this to David.. seems like he's looking for
submissions.  Ask ?'s in REVisions you might get more response then from
news:rec. even.. It's worth a shot.  Everyone's got something that will
help. Plus a clearer way of saying it.  :)

---------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 19:13:06 -0700 
From: Penny & Steven Lingenfelter  
Subject: REVisions -[Fwd: Re: Rev Supersonic] 

Here's another.

To: GreatG8tor@aol.com
Subject: REVisions -Re: Rev Supersonic

Hi there!
I saw your post, but sorry, I didn't have time to answer it.  I'm not
sure if I can really be of help.  I do better axels inside, but not
consistently.

Only because it's something I've not worked on.  If you want to do an
axel on a Rev. sonic, or any other Rev. model, it will take practice. 

Lots & lots of it.  Try to figure out what your doing, and what the kite
is doing.  Or what it is doing wrong.  

I was doing some pretty ones inside last week on Tues. On spot & keeping
it up.  Exaggerated follow through seemed to be working.  Then on
Thursday, only a few looked inpressive.  I firmly believe it would take
a good three months at least to get good at that move.  Maybe even
longer. 

I'm sorry I can't be of more help.  When you get good at it, you tell
me the nuances :)
Yes, they do axel, no it's not easy.  Axel in reverse is easiest for
me.  Good Luck!  

Best Breezes,
Penny

(ed. note - I am getting CLOSE to a consistent axel, perhaps one day...  )

----------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 00:54:29 -0400 
From: Ernie Nichols  
Subject: REVisions -ShockWave line lengths 

Hi MB
Penny told me to check you out ... nice job!

(ed. note - thanks!)

I looked at the SS picts and figure you would know something about the
SW which I just bought.  I'm having a little trouble getting it into the
air.  I measured the lines and the white lines (top lines according to
the video) are a few inches longer than the black (bottom) lines. I just
looked at the crazy8 handle and the tag says Shanti 100 ft./150 lb.

Are the top and bottom lines supposed to be equal length?  

I'm also having some problem keeping the kite from rotating on launch
but I think I can figure that out on my own.  I don't know anyone around
here (southern NH) that flies REVS so I'm looking for some help.

Thanks
ernie

(ed. note - Yes, top and bottom line lengths -should- be indentical for
proper Rev flying...  )

----------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 01:27:31 -0700 
From: "S.K. Brown"  
Subject: REVisions -A revolution handle? 

Hello David,
I stumbled across your Q-L page just now, quite impressive! I have a
number of home made rev style kites, from the plans in Skywork 1. 

I just bought a used "real" Rev 1, that needs a bit of TLC (some cows
walked all over it!!!). What I'm looking for is a second handle, to go
with the one I have. Not only did this guy let cows walk on his kite,
but he lost one handle! This probably has happened to at least one other
person, so if you know of anyone with a single Rev 1 handle they'd like
to sell, please pass my address on.

Good Lord, this probably sounds like a silly message.... 

Oh well, 
Best regards,
Steve

(ed. note - no sillier than anything I have ever posted...anyone help this
poor guy out?)

-------------------------------------------------

And that would be it for "sent in" contributions, onto me!

I will actually be somewhat brief this time out as there was a pile of
great contributions ( and yes, keep them coming, nothing gets me more
motivated than a bunch of stuff that needs to go out to the list...) from
people on the list, but a couple of comments at least....

As I said further above, I will be in Toronto between Oct 16th and Oct 25th
, with a couple of Revs in tow. Feel fre to send me an email, I'd like to
get an idea of the best places to fly and I'd love to meet some of you as
well while I am out there. The 1st weekend is a bit of a write off, but, I
may have some time. During the week is fine, its not a work trip, just a
stress break and that last weekend would be great, so, get in touch, mail
me at dh@monkey-boy.com and we'll hook up.

Amongst the myriad of other things I did this summer, the high point Rev
flying-wise was the Washington State International Kite Festival which I
managed to be at for the first three days. I had a simply awesome time
there and I'd like to thank Penny and Sharon in particular for all the fun,
and, Howard and the other REVisions members that I met while I was there. I
took a lot of pictures which I will be gallery'ing later this week and I
only walked out of there with one new kite, a beautiful Synergy A1 in a
tie-dye patterned sail. That too will have it's very own Gallery page soon,
so keep your eyes open for it at the REVisions web site.

thanks again, and I'll talk to you soon, sooner than the last break between
REVisions...

good winds to you all!

"A day without sunshine is like, you know, night."
REVisions, The Quad Kite Mailing List
http://www.monkey-boy.com/REVisions/

To subscribe, send a note to davidh@monkey-boy.com