REVisions 1.10, April 25th, 1998

'ello, fellow quadrophiles...

It's that time again. Spring. Time to fly as much as humanly possible...So,
I'll get the administrivia out of the way, and onto the postings...

Don't forget that all past and previous mailings get archived the same day
on the REVisions web site, located at :

    http://www.monkey-boy.com/REVisions/

If you need to get off the list, or, your email address changes, please let
me know at dh@monkey-boy.com , or, if you know of someone else who would
like to get the mailings, have them send me a note to the same address. 


Last posting, there were 50 of us, this time, we're up to 60. Pretty
pleasing, I'd say.

8)

On with it...

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(from our UK office...  8)  )

Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 14:42:30 -0800 
From: Simon Dann  
Subject: Competitive Quad Flying. 

Hello chums..
I wrote a little bit in Revisions 1.8, asking about what is 100% of a
wind window.  For those of you in USA at the moment this won't concern
you.  But for some it will.  The problem is this, in the STACK rule book
is a diagram to explain the size of a figure and how it relates to the
actual wind window.  For dual lines 125 foot lines are assumed and an 8
foot kite.  Therefore if a kite flys at 52/53 degrees it is 100 feet off
the ground.  Therefore 10 per cent = 10 feet.  Nice and easy.  So what
lenght lines do Quads fly on in competition.  Most Europeans use 100
foot or 30 metre lines, we mostly use Rev 1.5's.  The problem starts
when you try and pick an angle.  Remember that Quads also fly side ways
and backwards, this is what a quad does.  So the figure window has to be
twice as wide as high, and you have to fly in ALL the figure window,
sideways, backwards or forwards.  So how about 45 degrees as a start
point, this gives a window 70 foot approx Vertical(VW) and 140
Horizontal(HW).  This make all those figures very small!!



***(Note to editor, file attached zip file of Quad figures in WPG
format)**


***(Note FROM editor, if you'd like this file, email me and I'll get it off
to you...)**


I have worked on the idea of about 49-50 degrees, to give 75 foot VW and


150 HW, 10 per cent = 7.5 feet.
plus it gives 25 foot of line spare over 100 percent, just like dual
line kites.
If you think this is fair for all quad kites it may be we need to start
educating the judges to expaect figures based on 10% = 7.5 feet, ie
small figures.
Anyone going to be judging Quad precision or competitng in Quad
precision, what do you think ?  Once we get some form of standard we can
pass it to AKA and STACK.



On a lighter note, I still havn't got a shockwave, but I'm flying it a
lot (demo model) 
Tricks I can do.. Axles under and Over..LE forward belly down Ground
Launches, that 3d float thing where it recovers all by its self, a neat
multiple flick-Flac.  Can't keep height on the flick-flac, has anyone
figures how to ? Can't get a Real flat spin (at least 360).  I read
somewhere someone did a fade with it -- please how ??
With the old Rev 1.5, I'm working on an elevator, like a two line but LE
away, stake the kite LE down, sparside towards you, lines over trailing
edge.  Can do dual line style Flashes, Indoors and Out as of March 29th.
LE 15 degrees to ground, LE down. Pull on lower wing, lower wing goes
flat spins towards you round and away, kite continues in same
direction.  Multiples flashes become a strobe. Works well in low wind -
no wind conditions.
Do the Flash move after a LE stop just above the ground and it looks
just like a dual line 540 !! :-)



PS. the Robertshaws are coming, they will be in USA come May time I
believe they will be at Wildwood and Great lakes.  I will try and get
more infor ASAP.  Carl is Euro Quad Champion, James is just as good if
not better !! :-( [I compete against these two ] :-(
UK corespondent Signing Off.  Simon,


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(editor)
Thankfully, I compete in the Pacific Northwest, so I won't be getting MY
butt kicked by the Robertshaws. Penny gets that privilege...


-------------------------------------------


From: "Duane Starr"  
Subject: Address change and Albuquerque Kite Festival 
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 1998 09:45:42 -0800 


Hi David
Just thought I'd drop a quick line and tell you that my address has changed
due to some technical problems at MSN. Last week we had our yearly city kite
fly here in Albuquerque and for the second year in a row we had good winds.


The stunt kite turnout was the best in years and many new flyers were in the
ranks. I and several of the other flyers got to fly my new Supersonic with a
great deal of interest from all the Rev flyers in attendence. We also got a
little flying in on the Ultralite version I built with .5 Icarex and a
Skyshark 7p top spar and let me tell you if Revolution introduces one of
these the indoor crowd will have a new standard and a whole new bag of
tricks to try. The version I built (for personal use only) is really good in
2 to 12 mph winds and is very fast with good lift and excellent 3d
performance. The curved back leading edge should have better glide
characteristics than the stock Rev 1's and 1.5's with the pocket between the
two vertical spars giving the kite better lift for indoor flying. I haven't
had a chance to try it out indoors yet but on short lines outdoors its a
blast. Anyway thats all for now but I'll keep in touch.
Good Winds
Duane


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From: leethel@webtv.net (Lee Kraft) 
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 01:26:17 -0500 
Subject: Re: REVisions 1.9 


Hi Monkey Boy-
        Great mailing list and Website. Glad I joined the croud. Just
received 1.9 on Saturday, and decided tonight that I better get busy
with the keyboard.
          I'm an  "Old Geek" non-competitive kite flyer from
Philadelphia. ( 74 years 
old )  First started flying kites about ten years ago after seeing the
East Coast Stunt Kite competitions  at Wildwood, NJ. I was amazed at
what they were doing with kites, and went right out and bought a small
dual line delta. I spent a lot of the next two days battering it into
the sand before I finally learned how to keep it in the air. It was
built lke a tank and I never broke a spar. I did patch the sail a couple
of times with peel and stick. I still have that kite, although I don't


fly it any more. Just don't have the heart to get rid of it.
            Over the years I've gone on to bigger and better kites, and
finally graduated to quads. I'm building kites now,and enjoy that almost
as much as flying them.
             Through the recruiting efforts of John Smith, who
originated and was the first President of South Jersey Kite Flyers, I
joined that club. ( Yes, that is his real name ) Our club  is fortunate
to have three great kite builders, who run workshops for us. They are
Andy Selzer, Scott Spencer and Mike Dallmer. Scott was our second
president, and Mike is our current president. It was through these guys
that I learned most of what I know about building kites.
              Those of you who have flown at any of the events at Ocean
City, MD or Wildwood, NJ  in the past couple of years may have seen me
on the beach.. I fly a stack of three REV 2's with checker board sails.
They have a red and yellow stipe on the left side.  I made a fourth
checker board REV 2 to add to the stack, but found that four of them
don't fly as well as three. Maybe it has something to do with the length
of the train lines. Three in a stack fly rock solid, but when I add the
fourth, the stack  isn't nearly a steady.
                I have asked a number of people if they knew of a
formula to determine the length of the train lines, but was never able
to get a definate answer. Even Lee Sedgewick  couldn't give me anything.
It seems to be based on trial and error.  
                  I also fly single line and two line kites at times,
but the REV's are my favorites.
                   Hope to see some of you guys in Ocean City, MD on the


24th of this month. In the mean time -----
                    Good winds to you all.
                        Lee Kraft


-------------------------------------


Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 22:43:16 -0800 (PST) 
From: Haiweigh  
Subject: Please add me to your list... 


Hi there,
First of all, I would like to be added to your Revisions mailing list,
and now for some comments and questions..
As a Rev flyer of only 2 weeks, I have already been complimented on my
control, but would like to be able to learn a few more tricks.  Any
ideas for a Rev trick page on your site, or should we just wait for
Revolution to put theirs up again, or check in with Peter's site every
so often?


Also, I own a Rev II and have already had to tighten the bungi chords
holding the trailing points (for lack of proper terminology) about an
inch.  If the skin stretches any more, I'm afraid I may have to square
off the points so they won't be crimpled up in the chord.  Is that
amount of stretch normal in a new Rev (2 weeks old)?  I love the kite,
but am a little disappointed that it has to be fairly windy to use.
Thanks,
Ray Ferruolo
Providence, RI
Thanks for a place to talk about Revolutions!


--------------------------------------


(editor : not a problem, if I am not talking about computers or Revs, I am
probably asleep, so it's worthwhile for me to combine the two...)


--------------------------------------


Date:   Sat, 18 Apr 1998 19:09:28 -0600 
From: Alex Schaap  
Subject: rev kites 


david,


took some time out on a saturday to do some research on a new kite I am
looking to buy, the supersonic rev.  after reading your reviews and
seeing your pictures, you got me sold.  went to the gone with the wind
site to check on price---wow, not cheap, 431.01 canuck bucks to be
precise.  this will be my first quadline, been dual lining for years,
want more of a challenge.  question for you: what is the transistion


like from dual line to quadline? take a while to get used to? if you can
take some time out of your busy schedule to give me a few pointers,
that'll be great.  i live in wainwright alberta, moved here from langley
bc, always flew my kites at white rock beach.  wainwright is damn small
town, i fly my kites here and people don't know what the hell is going
on.  a kite you can control? i am sure a rev will fill thier pants even
more.


look forward to your reply.


alex schaap


------------------------------


Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 00:40:21 -0400 
From: John Palmer  
Subject: REVisions 


David,
  Here is a question for the REVisions list:


  OK, now that I have many hours of flying time on my favorite Rev 1.5...
it's starting to experience 'old age'.  In other words, some sail stretch,
bungie burnout etc.


   So, how does one overhaul a Rev?  I already put on new bungies, that
helped a lot (flies better).  But how do I know when they are too tight or
too loose?  With the sail stretched a bit, it's hard to tell, things don't
feel "just right" when you assemble the Rev.  What is the correct amount of
tension to have on the sail?  How does one tell when the bungies need
adjustment?  How about bridle adjustments?  Are there any that need to be
done, or could be done to improve performance?


  It would be nice for Revolution to publish this info... basic user
maintenance for their kites.  The theory of how Revs are built to make them
fly the way they to... to help people understand what to tune or maintain
to keep it flying at 100%.  


  So, any tips from list readers?


------------------------------



To answer Alex's question first...


When I moved over to the dark side from the dual line world (as I explained
it to someone just this afternoon...  8)  ) I ended up doing it in two
steps, by accident more than by design. My first "quad" was a TC Ultra,
which is a dual/quad delta style combo. I bought it orginally because I
wanted a four line kite, and thought, wow, cooler than a Rev. While it IS a
very cool kite, I decided that what I had really wanted was a Rev...So, I
had a bit of quad under my belt when I first got the 1.5 , but I was to
soon learn that the Rev is truly unique. It took two days to undo dual push
pull tendencies, and not two 2 hour days, two 8 hour days before I began to
feel "moderatly comfortable". And 8 months down the road, I still learn at
LEAST one new thing every time I go out. And, in reward for all that
focussed quad flying  (I often fly up to 24-30 hours a week if possible,
even more now that spring is back...) I now fly dual like some sort of
buffoon. Really. I put a dual up in the sky, and, it usually plummets out
of the sky, and I get miffed and go grab a Rev again...(but, on that note I
do intend to get more dual flying in this summer, just to show that I -can-
fly something besides Rev still...)


And, yeah, for people who have never seen a Rev fly, they have quite a
wierd reaction, but, I like that in people....


I have started a new way for me to keep on top of what I want to mention
within REVisions. It's simple, I keep a text file on my desktop, and merely
add to it when I remember something I forgot last time, or something new
that has come up...



So, first off, if you are running a Win95 system, hustle over to Peter's
Kite Site, and get the Rev cursors to replace the usual Windows cursors.
Endlessly amusing and very well done. If you know who developed these, I'd
love to get in contact with them so I could have them available on the
REVisions site... Go here :



http://www.win.tue.nl/cs/fm/pp/kites/sw/index.html


Just yesterday, I picked up two new videos. Both put out by Revolution, the
first is really an update to their usual training video, except using a
Shockwave for the initial setup. There's some nice Shockwave flying by Joe
Hadzicki, and it's kinda fun. Worth watching if for no other reason than to
get the assembly right the first time. (yes, people are still confused
about front or back with the Shockwave and Supersonic spars...) 


But, the one that REALLY got my attention was the Advanced Flying video
that they have recently released. In a nutshell, it's 28 minutes and 40
some odd seconds of some very cool Rev instruction in some of the more
tricky aspects of  Rev flying. Using mainly a Rev 1.5, very clear and
concise discussions and footage of getting a more solid upside down flying,
how to stop on a dime, some nifty launches, a GREAT look at "throw and
catch" (on 75 foot lines no less...) and some other great tips. Top notch
flying and humorous commentary provided by Dave Shenkman of Kite Connection
in Huntingdon Beach California. I have REALLY enjoyed this video and have
cleared up some mysteries that have been bothering me, so, while the truly
experienced amongst might not find anything really new, for those of us who
are sort of intermediate flyers, there is some great tips. And, some cool
flying too...  Truly the funniest part of the video is the outakes at the
end, I just about fell off of the sofa, I was laughing so hard... (hey! I
throw and catch JUST LIKE THAT...  badly.)  Two thumbs up, and, since I
talked about Dave in this note, I cc'ed him on this mailout, just so he
didn't think we were talking behind his back. Ooo, also, some really
dramatic Shockwave footage too.



While it may SEEM like I buy a new kite every REVisions, it's really not
true...But I did buy a nice Asymetric II the other week, just because it
was pretty and since Revolution isn't making them anymore, I needed a true
II to compliment my II SUL. So, that being said, I decided it was SO nice,
I'd use THAT as my 3D Rev and promptly converted it to a 3D Rev. I have
been thinking about documenting that conversion on the wen site, anyone
interested in how to do that conversion? terribly simple, takes less than
half an hour to do to any Rev.Let me know, I'll take pictures and write it
up nice an' purdy like for everyone to see.


Kitelife, the webzine went up April 1st. Had a time to stop by and visit?
Sandy Wagner (who I could have sworn was on this list , but alas, is not)
wrote a great column on Quad kiting, called (heh, I though of this title
when I was trying to name what became REVisions, and just couldn;t do
it...) 4Play, and it looks like it's going to cover a lot of stuff,
focussing on competing. There should be a new issue later this week, Friday
to be exact, so stop by and get a look, it's nicely done...


http://www.kitelife.com/


Anyone looking for Rev IIs? Or, Revs at Canadian dollar prices? Try here,
this is where the vast majority of my kiting dollar gets spent, because it
is 5 minutes from my favorite field and 10 minutes from my house, and Sally
is always sweet and wonderful. She has about 6 some odd IIs, a few 1.5s and
a couple of 1s, and, the new lines as well, She'll ship anywhere...No email
no web site, but...


Kites And Puppets Only
1496 Cartwright Street
Granville Island, Vancouver, BC
V6H 3Y5   (604) 685-9877


If she had email, she'd be on this list in a second, she seems to like Revs
the best out of the plethora of kites (and, well puppets) that she carries.
Tell her that David sent you, and she'll continue to listen to my bad jokes...


Two more quick notes, if you have some good Rev pictures all scanned in,
send them to me and we'll toss them in the gallery so there is more than
just me and my Revs there. And, finally, think it's worthwhile for me to
grab off the rec.kites postings regarding quads and archive them at the
site?  


Thanks for listening, good winds to all of you, and till next time...

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